19 year old here - I don't understand how this relates to the rest of the tip.
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Madhav Malhotra
Oct 10, 2022
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19 year old here - this point seems like it doesn't fit in with the rest. I'd recommend separating the physical environment tips (ex: living arrangements) from the social environment tips
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Catherine Brewer
Oct 6, 2022
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i liked the links to other resources in the other sections of this doc, i think it'd be useful to link to things that go into more depth on this. n=1, but i find it easy to nod along to advice in this genre (especially on decoupling how cool I think someone is/how statusy their claim is from how likely I think the claim is to be true), and hard to think of concrete things i could do to implement the advice.
Add:“Social interactions with EAs may seem different than ones you’re used to or have elsewhere Some EAs …”
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Madhav Malhotra
Oct 10, 2022
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19 year old here - doesn't really mean anything. We've heard this a billion times and the question is how to do it. Or what SPECIFICALLY is a story I can take away about the value of doing it?
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Madhav Malhotra
Oct 10, 2022
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19 year old here - seems like one of the most important points when we know that being a teenager is one of the riskiest times for mental health issues. Why not place it at the top?
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Sanya Roy
Oct 6, 2022
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excellent excellent, this is something i think i definitely needed to train my brain to prioritize when it became easier to do community building / meta work
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Peter Gebauer
Oct 6, 2022
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As someone considering community building work, in part because I'm not sure I have other useful skills, I'd like to hear more on this. I feel like this is enough to get me to want to think about it, but not sure it's enough context to get me to think about it better.
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Evan Osgood
Oct 10, 2022
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Replace:“don’t default to community building or other meta work just because you don’t currently have the ski…” with “consider which areas align with your interests. Don’t be held back because you’re not an expert: you…”
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Rocket Drew
Jul 6, 2023
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All of these things are especially true if you don't have a lot of experience with eg alcohol such that you're not well-calibrated on your own limits. Err on the side of caution! Feel free to invent excuses if that lessens the social pressure (eg I have something in the morning or I have a call later tonight)
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Shakeel Hashim
Oct 7, 2022
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i dont love this conflation, in part bc I'm not actually sure it's true of EAs?
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Shakeel Hashim
Oct 7, 2022
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(also lots of EAs wouldn't identify as rationalists and vice versa, I generally advocate for not lumping them together)
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Rocket Drew
Jul 6, 2023
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This! And you should feel empowered to voice your perspective on it
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Rocket Drew
Jul 6, 2023
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The first half of this sentence is so important. I also want it to include that you, the young person, might be very aware of where you stand! Feeling like you're being babied when you want independence sucks, and so does not receiving the support you need. Young people are not a monolith, and unfortunately you might need to remind the adults around you of that
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Rocket Drew
Jul 6, 2023
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Delete space
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Evan Osgood
Oct 6, 2022
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I'd be interested in a "Why EA" section that outlines the potential benefits and drawbacks of the community and makes sure people want to join for the right reasons.
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Deleted user
Oct 10, 2022
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Not sure I know what you have in mind - like
benefits - impactful work, interesting people, high standards, self improvement
Something like that. The goal of the paragraph seemed to be correcting a common misconception that EA is always a social community, and I imagine there are several similar misconceptions that could be expanded into a section. Something clarifying what EA actually provides (and doesn't provide) as a community.
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Shakeel Hashim
Oct 7, 2022
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strong +1
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Samuel Cottrell
Oct 6, 2022
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Things I would add: Sometimes, people look younger than they are; I've had moments where I thought someone was ~18 and it turned out they were like 23, which I learned after it would've been useful to know. Maybe go into the reasons why acting on age-gap stuff can cause harm/second-order effects?
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Samuel Cottrell
Oct 6, 2022
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Also, maybe add something along the lines of "the dating environment for really young EAs can be basically impossible, so keep that in mind?"
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Sanya Roy
Oct 6, 2022
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but that really depends on the person, no?
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Evan Osgood
Oct 6, 2022
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+1 to adding that it can be hard to tell age and maybe some advice around that.
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Rockwell Schwartz
Oct 6, 2022
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Both in the context of love/relationships and more generally, I would like to see a note on disclosing age. I understand why people may be reluctant to (including people in their early 20s or people older than the EA average) but in the case of minors it has a number of benefits and can sort of serve the purpose of the "Student Driver: Please Be Patient" stickers common on cars in the US. This may be useful for those new to EA as well, essentially in both cases providing context to those who otherwise wouldn't have it.
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Rockwell Schwartz
Oct 6, 2022
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I'd love to see you write about this if you haven't already and are comfortable. Seems like a really valuable perspective!
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Rocket Drew
Jul 6, 2023
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Overall impressions of the doc:
I think the tone of this document is somewhat unwelcoming to young people and veers away from advice and into "here are things that could go wrong or be hard for you".
I think you could mitigate this with a preface that covers: - We are so happy you are here! We value your presence, experiences, and contributions; we are a stronger community for your participation :) - It is so hard to be a young person. Your work and your thoughts are probably frequently devalued by adults who have more power than you. While our community is not immune to these dynamics, that doesn't mean they're okay, and you should speak up if you're feeling overlooked. - There might be a community manager or community health person in your organization who would love to talk to you! If there is, you should err on the side of connecting with them, even if you don't think you have a pressing reason to. - Ask around to get connected to other young people who might share some of your experiences and offer friendship (not sure if there's a young EAs affinity group anywhere but this could be worth having?)
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Deleted user
Jul 7, 2023
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Super thanks for this feedback! What you're pointing at comes from the history of this doc, but I'd like it to get better and better. I imagine some of the things you're saying only make sense coming from the non-young people, but if you were excited to write up some of the other parts, the things you would have wanted to see, I would love you to add them right into the doc! I endorse everything you've written here.
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Sanya Roy
Oct 6, 2022
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Something I have heard from a decent number of young people in our community is that we feel like it's becoming increasingly difficult to interface with non-EA people in our day-to-day. College peers that are not as intellectually-interested or high school peers. Maybe it would be helpful to have a bit of advice on how to keep developing these more intellectual and "object competence" parts of yourself when you're not around EA people? I know I've definitely found it more difficult to consistently maintain this core sense of myself when I am around people who talk about totally different things that are worlds apart from my interests. The only way I've been recently learning to navigate this is by spending more time by myself (which I'm totally ok with) if it means that I will not be socially influenced by people that are different from me in this sense.
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Evan Osgood
Oct 6, 2022
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I think a section on social skills around people who aren't like EAs would be valuable. Something about crocker's rules and doing your best while recognizing that others have different knowledge bases
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Deleted user
Oct 10, 2022
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Would love either or both of you to write some thoughts on this as a "suggestion" in the doc!
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Evan Osgood
Oct 10, 2022
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Adding a comment in the "use your brainspace wisely" section
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You're suggesting
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Our boring advice for teens.
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Headings you add to the document will appear here.
Our (potentially boring) advice for teens entering EA spaces, from current EAs
We are *all* figuring things out
Use your brainspace wisely
Thoughts on rules and boundaries specific to minors
Sometimes the kind thing to do is to have good boundaries.
But there are effects on other people too.
Thoughts on alcohol and drugs
The role of minors in the community is genuinely complicated.
Thoughts on relationships
Some additional recommendations / unsolicited advice