I love the "you can just do things" mentality and this is a great, practical example of it.
Running a reading group, probably the greatest service you do to people is to decide which articles they do not need to read. So I love the idea of taking a unit length of 1 hour and maximising the value you can get from that one hour (I think that's what you did, right?). This is very hard work. But as a busy person, I'm constantly frustrated to read "even if you don't want to go in depth, you should definitely read this one 35-page article and definitely you have to listen to the 7-hour Dwarkesh podcast for the background." ...
Sorry my vote still didn't get you to 100, but early days yet!
Just reading these numbers brings home how much of a bubble social-media creates for each of us.
I'm in Belgium but very aware of the Dutch EA orgs. My feed has lots of Rutger (School for Moral Ambition) and De Correspondent - I probably deluded myself that it was representative, since I have never actively sought these out.
I suppose (in my little bubble of one), I would have assumed that the School for Moral Ambition would be quite widely known, as Rutger is quite well known and appears on talk-shows and the like.
Likewise, Doneer Effectief is almost the role-model among new Effective Giving orgs based on their amazing growth, so it's really crazy to think that their true awareness is so low.
I suppose the up-side is that there is so much potential for growth. All the more reason to work on outreach this Giving Season!
Thanks for sharing these really interesting and sobering results!
The details don't matter so much as the key point, which is to be aware that you're an introvert and to intentionally plan.
Before knowing much about introversion, I'd been at many conferences (not EA) and always felt guilty when I would literally sneak out to have lunch at a local Subway rather than eat the delicious free food just so I could have some quiet time. Or how I would find an excuse to walk from Room 41 to room 43 via the outdoor car-park.
Also it's great that you highlight that introverts can have and enjoy fantastic conversations. I found (but I could be mis-representative here) that after a conference, I often had more actual follow-ups than most extraverts. They met 100 people, laughed, chatted, had fun, probably would meet up again and built their network, but I had maybe 5 people that would become partners on actual projects - in part because I did some of the things that you recommend like take time and prioritise and say no (which was always hard, I didn't have a good line like you had, I used to just invent other appointments that couldn't wait ...).
We really struggle to get outside EA and see how we look from the outside.
I especially love the 3rd point and your idea to talk more about what we actually do, which is so, so good, and not weird at all - helping very poor people, helping animals, preparing for pandemics, taking the side of "what's good for humans" in climate, in AI, in nuclear weapons ...
The one thing I would add is "how EA's live". There is this stereotype based on SBF and so on - the vast majority of people working in EA orgs either volunteer or take salaries far below their market value and live quite frugal lives. (not sure if this is true in the SF Bay area, but in much of the world that is very much the norm.
This is really helpful. I like the 4-page summary which captures some of the flaws neatly.
I think the point I want to make, based on this, is "It all looks great in theory, but in reality it hasn't lived up to the promise."
(this is a much less controversial argument than "but the larvae suffer" which many people will not take seriously - especially given the suffering we already accept for animals which are mammals like us in factory farms ...)
I love how you have given different routes to challenge it:
Is it even legal in the EU? (I suspect they will have this covered).
Is it as effective as they claim? Is it competitive with alternative routes?
The core of my role is to evaluate this. But you have given me some additional doubts to question their proposal.
On the other hand, these are very credible experts on bioprocessing and biotechnology in general, so it is unlikely that they are making stupid claims (because they know that they will be checked) or proposing things that are unfeasible.
(I will re-study their proposal with the help of your insights to see if I identify any of the typical flaws you identify).
Insect sentience. My idea is to frame this more as a PR risk - I can mention it as an ethical risk in and of itself, but I think it's more impactful to say "how will you react if people cite the New York declaration on Animal Consciousness and claim you are inflicting pain and suffering on millions of innocent insects?"
The invasive point is also interesting. I can see people developing a NIMBY mentality towards that.
I have not read all the links you posted, but I will try to before the final evaluation.
For those working on diet-change, this is a wonderful example. Perspective on this is that Belgium is not like California.
There is not a strong vegan movement like in India - this is just a cool city with a strong beer and party culture and a great university.
But this one city has made some amazing progress on diet-change that we could all learn from.
What I find interesting about this: This was all achieved without any pressure or guilt. Nobody is being asked to become vegan. There are no vegans looking disapprovingly at anyone eating meat.
People are just being shown the positives, in a positive way "Look at all the amazing, tasty vegan food out there, I bet you didn't know it was that good!" Then they get the feel-good factor of knowing they're also helping improve the world, lower climate impact, less animal suffering - and it's cool and it's all a positive experience.
Schoolchildren are being exposed to vegan dishes, but not in a political, activist way - nothing that will get parents rebelling. it's all positive. It results in lots of places having vegan options they didn't have before - no pressure to choose them, but many people do. And eventually, many of these people may become vegans. And even if they don't, they will probably consume a lot less meat.
I am obviously not aware of what's happening elsewhere, but this feels like a real win/win approach that could work in any city. Because it's fun, it's exciting, it's novel, it's different. And, as a bonus, it also helps reduce animal suffering.
Good point about overheads. I suppose what I had in mind was maybe closer to a part-time work as a contractor / consultant - so no overheads. It's a way for the senior person to be able to choose to work for a low salary for an impactful charity while maybe earning more on non-NGO work.
Nice article about the maze - I worked in one of those once :(
Absolutely, thanks for pointing this out! Those long words beginning with A - I wouldn't mind, but I have a whole folder in my email about "alternative proteins" ... I will fix this now ...
Great post, thanks for writing all this down!
I love the "you can just do things" mentality and this is a great, practical example of it.
Running a reading group, probably the greatest service you do to people is to decide which articles they do not need to read. So I love the idea of taking a unit length of 1 hour and maximising the value you can get from that one hour (I think that's what you did, right?). This is very hard work. But as a busy person, I'm constantly frustrated to read "even if you don't want to go in depth, you should definitely read this one 35-page article and definitely you have to listen to the 7-hour Dwarkesh podcast for the background." ...
Sorry my vote still didn't get you to 100, but early days yet!
Just reading these numbers brings home how much of a bubble social-media creates for each of us.
I'm in Belgium but very aware of the Dutch EA orgs. My feed has lots of Rutger (School for Moral Ambition) and De Correspondent - I probably deluded myself that it was representative, since I have never actively sought these out.
I suppose (in my little bubble of one), I would have assumed that the School for Moral Ambition would be quite widely known, as Rutger is quite well known and appears on talk-shows and the like.
Likewise, Doneer Effectief is almost the role-model among new Effective Giving orgs based on their amazing growth, so it's really crazy to think that their true awareness is so low.
I suppose the up-side is that there is so much potential for growth. All the more reason to work on outreach this Giving Season!
Thanks for sharing these really interesting and sobering results!
Love this article. Thank you!
The details don't matter so much as the key point, which is to be aware that you're an introvert and to intentionally plan.
Before knowing much about introversion, I'd been at many conferences (not EA) and always felt guilty when I would literally sneak out to have lunch at a local Subway rather than eat the delicious free food just so I could have some quiet time. Or how I would find an excuse to walk from Room 41 to room 43 via the outdoor car-park.
Also it's great that you highlight that introverts can have and enjoy fantastic conversations. I found (but I could be mis-representative here) that after a conference, I often had more actual follow-ups than most extraverts. They met 100 people, laughed, chatted, had fun, probably would meet up again and built their network, but I had maybe 5 people that would become partners on actual projects - in part because I did some of the things that you recommend like take time and prioritise and say no (which was always hard, I didn't have a good line like you had, I used to just invent other appointments that couldn't wait ...).
This is really great observation.
We really struggle to get outside EA and see how we look from the outside.
I especially love the 3rd point and your idea to talk more about what we actually do, which is so, so good, and not weird at all - helping very poor people, helping animals, preparing for pandemics, taking the side of "what's good for humans" in climate, in AI, in nuclear weapons ...
The one thing I would add is "how EA's live". There is this stereotype based on SBF and so on - the vast majority of people working in EA orgs either volunteer or take salaries far below their market value and live quite frugal lives. (not sure if this is true in the SF Bay area, but in much of the world that is very much the norm.
Thank you Sharyn !
This is really helpful. I like the 4-page summary which captures some of the flaws neatly.
I think the point I want to make, based on this, is "It all looks great in theory, but in reality it hasn't lived up to the promise."
(this is a much less controversial argument than "but the larvae suffer" which many people will not take seriously - especially given the suffering we already accept for animals which are mammals like us in factory farms ...)
Thank you, Tom, this is fantastic !
I love how you have given different routes to challenge it:
I have not read all the links you posted, but I will try to before the final evaluation.
Really appreciate the time you put into this!
Cheers
Denis
For those working on diet-change, this is a wonderful example. Perspective on this is that Belgium is not like California.
There is not a strong vegan movement like in India - this is just a cool city with a strong beer and party culture and a great university.
But this one city has made some amazing progress on diet-change that we could all learn from.
What I find interesting about this: This was all achieved without any pressure or guilt. Nobody is being asked to become vegan. There are no vegans looking disapprovingly at anyone eating meat.
People are just being shown the positives, in a positive way "Look at all the amazing, tasty vegan food out there, I bet you didn't know it was that good!" Then they get the feel-good factor of knowing they're also helping improve the world, lower climate impact, less animal suffering - and it's cool and it's all a positive experience.
Schoolchildren are being exposed to vegan dishes, but not in a political, activist way - nothing that will get parents rebelling. it's all positive. It results in lots of places having vegan options they didn't have before - no pressure to choose them, but many people do. And eventually, many of these people may become vegans. And even if they don't, they will probably consume a lot less meat.
I am obviously not aware of what's happening elsewhere, but this feels like a real win/win approach that could work in any city. Because it's fun, it's exciting, it's novel, it's different. And, as a bonus, it also helps reduce animal suffering.
Veggie Thursdays and vegan surprises! How Ghent became a plant-based paradise | Food | The Guardian
Thank you to people who have DM'd me some great information about this!
Good point about overheads. I suppose what I had in mind was maybe closer to a part-time work as a contractor / consultant - so no overheads. It's a way for the senior person to be able to choose to work for a low salary for an impactful charity while maybe earning more on non-NGO work.
Nice article about the maze - I worked in one of those once :(
Absolutely, thanks for pointing this out! Those long words beginning with A - I wouldn't mind, but I have a whole folder in my email about "alternative proteins" ... I will fix this now ...