I agree that veganism is the strongest identity in the animal movement at the moment. It's a powerful meme, a very salient identity for many. I don't think any other animal advocacy related identity has more mentions in Twitter bios. Plant-based people or vegetarians don't tend to refer to that in their social media profiles.
I disagree that vegans are 2% in the US. 2% is the figure you get when you lump plant-based and vegan together. When you ask specifically for "vegan", only 1% identify as vegan in 2023 Gallup survey. I think plant-based people are also around 1% in the US. Google searches for veganism have also been globally declining since 2020. And I think the leadership of major animal advocacy organisations are amenable to the idea that we should stop mentioning veganism. So I think there is some possibility for change.
I will write a few more posts on this. But my current, still uncertain, thoughts are:
-The main identity we promote in animal advocacy should be "animal advocate".
-"Animal advocate" should be more vaguely defined and primarily refer to a political commitment similarly to "feminist" and "socialist".
-We should abandon veganism as an identity and stop promoting it.
-We should separately push for different norms for animal advocates. Eating plant-based, avoiding animal-tested products etc. should each be advocated as separate norms.
-Priesthood(people working in animal advocacy) and laymen(mere members of the "animal advocate" identity) should be subject to different expectations.
-We should strongly push for norms against eating meat. Individual diet change should still be pursued.
-Consuming animal products shouldn't disqualify someone from identifying as an animal advocate. I'm not sure what the status of meat should be. I suspect a few countries like Germany might get to 10% vegetarian within my lifetime so I believe restricting our base to vegetarians might be viable in some places.
I believe the situation is similar for harms to others. Acts that make you a non-Muslim are a much narrower set compared to sinful actions. A thief still remains a Muslim/Christian/Jew as far as I know. Even murderers are still considered as believers depending on the denomination.
I keep thinking about this. Even though I'm super sceptical about causal inferences that back into the past, one explanation for the decline of Mohism in China is that their insistence on frugality wasn't popular among elites and they lost elite support.
I agree that nutrition science is not robust enough, but I have never been convinced by arguments against healthiness of a fully plant-based diet.
As you note, vegans live longer in observational studies.
Furthermore, trans fats and heavy metals are very likely to be bad for health. Consuming animal products exposes you to these. (A lot of) Saturated fat might also be bad for you and animal products have more of that. I agree that vegans might be missing out on some beneficial nutrients but there are also some harms avoided. I'm not sure which effect dominates.
I'm not sure what the right proportion of E2Gers should be. But I tend to think having thoughtful people who put their money where their mouth is and do not depend on EA financially is valuable for community epistemics. I'd like having more of them around.
The UK offers better access as a conference location for international participants compared to the US or the EU.
I'm being invited to conferences in different parts of the world as a Turkish citizen, and visa processes for the US and the EU have gotten a lot more difficult lately. I'm unable to even get a visa appointment for several European countries, and my appointment for the US visa was scheduled 16 months out. I believe the situation is similar for visa applicants from other countries. The UK currently offers the smoothest process with timelines of only a few weeks. Conference organizers that seek applications from all over the world could choose the UK over other options.
I agree that veganism is the strongest identity in the animal movement at the moment. It's a powerful meme, a very salient identity for many. I don't think any other animal advocacy related identity has more mentions in Twitter bios. Plant-based people or vegetarians don't tend to refer to that in their social media profiles.
I disagree that vegans are 2% in the US. 2% is the figure you get when you lump plant-based and vegan together. When you ask specifically for "vegan", only 1% identify as vegan in 2023 Gallup survey. I think plant-based people are also around 1% in the US. Google searches for veganism have also been globally declining since 2020. And I think the leadership of major animal advocacy organisations are amenable to the idea that we should stop mentioning veganism. So I think there is some possibility for change.
I will write a few more posts on this. But my current, still uncertain, thoughts are:
-The main identity we promote in animal advocacy should be "animal advocate".
-"Animal advocate" should be more vaguely defined and primarily refer to a political commitment similarly to "feminist" and "socialist".
-We should abandon veganism as an identity and stop promoting it.
-We should separately push for different norms for animal advocates. Eating plant-based, avoiding animal-tested products etc. should each be advocated as separate norms.
-Priesthood(people working in animal advocacy) and laymen(mere members of the "animal advocate" identity) should be subject to different expectations.
-We should strongly push for norms against eating meat. Individual diet change should still be pursued.
-Consuming animal products shouldn't disqualify someone from identifying as an animal advocate. I'm not sure what the status of meat should be. I suspect a few countries like Germany might get to 10% vegetarian within my lifetime so I believe restricting our base to vegetarians might be viable in some places.
I agree!
I believe the situation is similar for harms to others. Acts that make you a non-Muslim are a much narrower set compared to sinful actions. A thief still remains a Muslim/Christian/Jew as far as I know. Even murderers are still considered as believers depending on the denomination.
I keep thinking about this. Even though I'm super sceptical about causal inferences that back into the past, one explanation for the decline of Mohism in China is that their insistence on frugality wasn't popular among elites and they lost elite support.
I agree that nutrition science is not robust enough, but I have never been convinced by arguments against healthiness of a fully plant-based diet.
As you note, vegans live longer in observational studies.
Furthermore, trans fats and heavy metals are very likely to be bad for health. Consuming animal products exposes you to these. (A lot of) Saturated fat might also be bad for you and animal products have more of that. I agree that vegans might be missing out on some beneficial nutrients but there are also some harms avoided. I'm not sure which effect dominates.
I'm not sure what the right proportion of E2Gers should be. But I tend to think having thoughtful people who put their money where their mouth is and do not depend on EA financially is valuable for community epistemics. I'd like having more of them around.
Thank you, very interesting and much needed. Are any of the RCTs used in this meta-analysis public? What are their designs like?
This is a very important research area. Thank you. I especially liked the empirical testing approaches section.
The UK offers better access as a conference location for international participants compared to the US or the EU.
I'm being invited to conferences in different parts of the world as a Turkish citizen, and visa processes for the US and the EU have gotten a lot more difficult lately. I'm unable to even get a visa appointment for several European countries, and my appointment for the US visa was scheduled 16 months out. I believe the situation is similar for visa applicants from other countries. The UK currently offers the smoothest process with timelines of only a few weeks. Conference organizers that seek applications from all over the world could choose the UK over other options.