"Are there such opportunities? So far, I can't break this down to anything tangible. 'If we don't do anything, the systems will become entrenched and determine animal outcomes for decades to come' - what systems? What outcomes? Who, where? Can someone give me a few clear examples of tractable situations? 

... Agricultural AI platforms from John Deere and Bayer are being deployed. But how is any of this tractable - what are you hoping orgs/grantees/EA people can do about those things?" 

... If that's so, then can someone tell me, in plain English, what that looks like? I.e '[lab] is currently planning [this development]. If we do [this action], we can change it to [this outcome], which will mean [x number] of animals experience [less suffering, presumably].' 

I just want to express that these are really sound questions and I hope you keep asking them. I believe they are, as of yet, unanswered. I'd love to see AIxAnimals field/thought leaders work out their theories of change more clearly and concretely. 

I think you correctly point out that there are gaps, and some of the framings I've seen seem to suggest that poultry farmers will just sit idly by as their animal-friendly AI COO's will make commercially suboptimal farm-management and procurement decisions. 

But, this is still a nacent field and I think questions like these will help it along!

It's one of the main factors going into the decisions from most of the funders in the circle :) 

However, CEA's are rather shallow and most grants are quite experimental or exploratory in nature sometimes with the intent to allow orgs to scale and find ways to cost-effectively use funds at a larger scale in the future, either by themselves or by others.

Thanks Sofia! You should mainly thank Joey and James, who typed most and set the norm for transparency.

I definitely second that there's room for a guide that helps people seeking funding in the AW space with understanding where and when to apply, based on the scope, size and maturity of their organisation. This might be something the AIM grantmaking team could help with at a point in the future and I know Joey's quite keen on this, but Hive might be in an even better position to work on sth similar :) 

Thanks for the reply :) the number you cite for other insects is yearly turnover, not how many are alive at any moment, right? So the number might not be as far off?

But yeah, without looking at any data, other major farmed insects numbers are probably increasing at a faster rate than honeybees.

Holy **** this was one of those things that changed my mind just by looking at the title because I realised I was holding a belief that was clearly mistaken if you think about it logically for a second, but no one actually ever really challenged me on it. Why did I never realise that honeybees are obviously the most farmed animal on earth?

I always told people that farmed honey is terrible, but terrible in the same way as that dairy is terrible. I would have put the order of 'plz stop eating this for the love of god' at 

1. eggs & white meat
2. red meat,
3. dairy and honey 

I will bump honey up the list (50% vibes based list by the way, not calibrated on exact SAD/portion).

PS: Would have been easier if you listed '#days of farming' per 'per capita consumption' rather than per kilo. 1kg is roughly the yearly consumption per person in Europe I believe (surprisingly high?), vs 20kg for chicken. Also, the link to the 97% thing didn't work, so I couldn't really check that stat. (It seems oddly specific given uncertainty)

Thanks Björn! Really interested in the diet change interventions. Veganuary has probably also had quite a nice spillover effect through corporate engagement with the challenge (wether solicited by veganuary or not). During the month of January, supermarkets and brands tend to allocate more resources on marketing, product development and deals for plant based products. 

To me, this write-up would have been a lot more useful if it ended with a rough cost-effectiveness analysis and any takes on what funders should be excited to fund. 

Some other thoughts: I'm sceptical that every 6 extra sign ups to a challenge will get someone from an average diet to an almost plant based diet for a duration of more than 2 years. Is that what the 15% suggests? How were the RCT's performed? Were random people selected and given an incentive to participate?

AFAIK, the fact that SMA takes a different stance on 'distancing' or differentiating itself from the EA community compared to, say, Ambitious Impact, is because the reputation of EA is just really very different in the US than in Europe. A lot more toxic, that is.

If they only had plans to launch in NL, Germany and other European countries, I think they would have been a bit less careful to set up their own separate brand / community and maintain some distance. 

Nevertheless, they've generally expressed the desire to not be branded an 'ea-organisation' by people in or outside the community (stressing they take inspiration from other groups and schools of thougt too*) so I think people should respect that :) 

*Including the Nader's Raiders which I guess is also not the most uncontroversial in the US but old enough that people don't get upset about it lol

Could nets be made such that their mesh size increases when they get soaking wet?

PS: Are the insecticides also a problem? Are there biodegradable insecticides?

Can the reading times be updated for linkposts? Our previous fellowship participants said this would have helped them schedule and anticipate reading preparation.

Couldn't make it this time, but will join next time! Thanks for the article and hosting this event!!