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Welp, this is it, this is my FTX , this is the thing that permanently makes me lose all faith In the EA movement. I am deleting my account on here after this message.

I value the work of other groups in the EA community shining a light on exploited animals like fish and invertebrates , that have been largely abandoned by traditional animal rights organizations.

But Every-time you gaze your eyes on “ coventional livestock” It feels like internal sabotage

Wether it’s advocating for changes that Increase Chicken mortality https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mEoaEm9xRuVkX3nWggRPz700RU7_Z_QgRuEtQMWiMbM/edit

Or wanting everyone to stop advocating for animals and being vegan because meat eaters find it annoying https://www.amazon.com/How-Create-Vegan-World-Pragmatic/dp/1590565703/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?adgrpid=55616130466&gclid=Cj0KCQiAtICdBhCLARIsALUBFcHXj_Cq2z0IDy0Hgl82a5MGcaDZkhu9PtV4oc1NbhPRPeui0BhaRBwaAjT2EALw_wcB&hvadid=409977028744&hvdev=m&hvlocphy=9007235&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=10492759388869879236&hvtargid=kwd-335443252748&hydadcr=12157_11118205&keywords=how+to+create+a+vegan+world&qid=1671462334&sr=8-1

Or giving our money to junk food lobby groups that research suggests don’t help animals at all https://gfi.org/


And now straight up advocating for a world in which animals are still bred and slaughtered as commodities

If I wanted to support groups in bed with the meat industry I would still be giving money to the HSUS

Next time i see the label “Effective Altruism” attached to anything , I’ ll interpret it as the warning colors it is.

Yes the three top carp* species alone make up 19 billion individuals vs 11 billion pond loach

*I’m treating any large member of the Cyprinidae family as a “carp” ( common names are difficult at the best of the times and even worse for fish) for these purposes

*minor nitpick While Carp, Catfish, Tilapia, Salmonids etc are very common “ types” of fish farmed, each of those categories lumps together numerous species, while the most common farmed fish species is the pond loach https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12pA0UxIbRDcfY5g25XZ7na4duhj6411l-1-_3tRH48k/edit only weighs 4 to 5 grams https://www.fisheriesjournal.com/archives/2019/vol7issue4/PartC/7-3-62-705.pdf

That would have negative consequences for the people that already exist today and rely on earths biosphere, the same can not be said for these frivolous space colonization ventures

ACE has 4 top charities

Wild Animal Initiative -> not involved with livestock , irrelevant to discussion

Faunalytics -> involved in research and making research more accesible, impact valuable but very hard to measure in the way that makes “ offsetting” work as a concept .

Good Food Institute -> plant-based-alternative industry lobbying group, probably useless, considering There is no association between rising plant-based-meat sales and lowered meat sales.

The Humane League->mainly focused on “ improving” livestock welfare ( not decreasing the number of animals farmed) , has been a major force in the “ cage-free” push even-though Industrial-cage-free Egg farms tend to have higher mortality rates ( meaning more farmed animals per Kcal) than conventional farms. almost certainly net negative and should be tossed to the side.

You complain about hypotheticals far removed from reality, and then offer up one. There is no EA recognized organization that you could possibly use to offset the number of animals raised for your animal-product consumption. Donating to an ACE top charity means one of these four, one bad, one useless, one irrelevant, and one to difficult to quantify the impact of. People who claim to be offsetting There meat consumption ( is any one actually doing this???) are not.

NPP is increasing, meaning There is more food available, and warmer climates means faster metabolisms and shorter lifespans for ectotherms, we should expect Climate change to increase the number of future animals.

Answer by Vgvt10

I know you have the exact opposite position on this as me but It would be nice If you could try to do justice to the Negative Utilitarian Idea that terraforming far off celestial bodies and creating more bisopheres is actually the worst thing humanity could ever do.

https://m.youtube.com/watch Stumbled across a youtube video of a guy making a version of fermented tofu at home from firm tofu. He pickled it and after waiting for it to age, mixed it with olive oil, potato starch, and coconut oil to give it a soft stretchy cheese like texture.

In 2021 the IUCN implemented the “ green list” a companion to its more traditional “ red list” , right now the green list is more a proof of concept with only a few dozen species ( as oppose to the almost 150,000 red list species) , but It ranks animals not on how likely they are to go extinct in the near future, but by how heavily depleted/range-restricted they are from a historical baseline. Expanding recognition of and in turn protections for “least-concern” but heavily depleted species ( such as American and Europeans beavers, cougar, black tailed prairie dogs, wapiti, European water vole( in UK), eurasian harvest mice( UK), European hedgehog(In UK), gray wolves, brown bears, evening grosbeaks , wood thrush, monarch butterfly, European starling( native range) etc) could protect a large number of wild animals.

I wouldn’t be worried about Chinese Americans being too familiar with rare Chinese Tofu varieties, simply cause China is a large culturally diverse place and most Chinese-Americans are from The south eastern Cantonese speaking regions ,

As an English speaking Vegan on the internet I’ve noticed and increased interest in “ tofus” made with other legumes, like peanuts or black beans, I think there is value in having substitutes available for a common allergen, and wonder If you could market “ black bean tofu” at a Mexican restaurant as something new and trendy and that “fits the restaurant” even If it’s still standard firm tofu.

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