Hi All
My first post here - please be kind!
I've recently been listening to and reading various arguments around EA topics that rely heavily on reasoning about a loosely defined notion of "expected value". Coming from a mathematics background, and having no grounding at all in utilitarianism, this has left me wondering why expected value is used as the default decision rule in evaluating (speculative, future) effects of EA actions even when the probabilities involved are small (and uncertain).
I have seen a few people here refer to Pascal's mugging, and I agree with that critique of EV. But it doesn't seem to me you need to go anywhere near that far before things break down. Naively (?), I'd say that if you invest your resources in an action with a 1 in a million chance of saving a billion lives, and a 999,999 in a million chance of having no effect, then (the overwhelming majority of the time) you haven't done anything at all. It only works if you can do the action many many times, and get an independent roll of your million-sided dice each time. To take an uncontroversial example, if the lottery was super-generous and paid out £100 trillion, but I had to work for 40 years to get one ticket, the EV of doing that might be, say, £10 million. But I still wouldn't win. So I'd actually get nothing if I devoted my life to that. Right...?
I'm hoping the community here might be able to point me to something I could read, or just tell me why this isn't a problem, and why I should be motivated by things with low probabilities of ever happening but high expected values.
If anyone feels like humoring me further, I also have some more basic/fundamental doubts which I expect are just things I don't know about utilitarianism, but which often seem to be taken for granted. At the risk of looking very stupid, here are those:
- Why does anyone think human happiness/wellbeing/flourishing/worth-living-ness is a numerical quantity? Based on subjective introspection about my own "utility" I can identify some different states I might be in, and a partial order of preference (I prefer to feel contented than to be in pain but I can't rank all my possible states), but the idea that I could be, say 50% happier seems to have no meaning at all.
- If we grant the first thing - that we have numerical values associated with our wellbeing - why does anyone expect there to be a single summary statistic (like a sum total, or an average) that can be used to combine everyone's individual values to decide which of two possible worlds is better? There seems to be debate about whether "total utilitarianism" is right, or whether some other measure is better. But why should there be such a measure at all?
- In practice, even if there is such a statistic, how does one use it? It's hard to deny the obviousness of "two lives saved is better than one", but as soon as you move to trying to compare unlike things it immediately feels much harder and non-obvious. How am I supposed to use "expected value" to actually compare, in the real world, certainly saving 3 lives with a 40% change of hugely improving the educational level of ten children (assuming these are the end outcomes - I'm not talking about whether educating the kids saves more lives later or something)? And then people want to talk about and compare values for whole future worlds many years hence - wow.
I have a few more I'm less certain about, but I'll stop for now and see how this lands. Cheers for reading the above. I'll be very grateful for explanations of why I'm talking nonsense, if you have the time and inclination!
I won't try to answer your three numbered points since they are more than a bit outside my wheelhouse + other people have already started to address them, but I will mention a few things about your preface to that (e.g., Pascal's mugging).
I was a bit surprised to not see a mention of the so-called Petersburg Paradox, since that posed the most longstanding challenge to my understanding of expected value. The major takeaways I've had for dealing with both the Petersburg Paradox and Pascal's mugging (more specifically, "why is it that this supposedly accurate decision theory rule seems to lead me to make a clearly bad decision?") are somewhat-interrelated and are as follows:
1. Non-linear valuation/utility: money should not be assumed to linearly translate to utility, meaning that as your numerical winnings reach massive numbers you typically will see massive drops in marginal utility. This by itself should mostly address the issue with the lottery choice you mentioned: the "expected payoff/winnings" (in currency terms) is almost meaningless because it totally fails to reflect the expected value, which is probably miniscule/negative since getting $100 trillion likely does not make you that much happier than getting $1 trillion (for numerical illustration, let's suppose 1000 utils vs. 995u), which itself likely is only slightly better than winning $100 billion (say, 950u) ... and so on whereas it costs you 40 years if you don't win (let's suppose that's like -100u).
2. Bounded bankrolling: with things like the Petersburg Paradox, my understanding is that the longer you play, the higher your average payoff tends to be. However, that might still be -$99 by the time you go bankrupt and literally starve to death, after which point you no longer can play.
3. Bounded payoff: in reality, you would expect that payoffs to be limited to some reasonable, finite amount. If we suppose that they are for whatever reason not limited, then that essentially "breaks the barrier" for other outcomes, which are the next point:
4. Countervailing cases: This is really crucial for bringing things together, yet I feel like it is consistently underappreciated. Take for example classic Pascal's mugging-type situations, like "A strange-looking man in a suit walks up to you and says that he will warp up to his spaceship and detonate a super-mega nuke that will eradicate all life on earth if and only if you do not give him $50 (which you have in your wallet), but he will give you $3^^^3 tomorrow if and only if you give him $50." We could technically/formally suppose the chance he is being honest is nonzero (e.g., 0.0000000001%), but still abide by rational expectation theory if you suppose that there are indistinguishably likely cases that cause the opposite expected value -- for example, the possibility that he is telling you the exact opposite of what he will do if you give him the money (for comparison, see the philosopher God response to Pascal's wager), or the possibility that the "true" mega-punisher/rewarder is actually just a block down the street and if you give your money to this random lunatic you won't have the $50 to give to the true one (for comparison, see the "other religions" response to the narrow/Christianity-specific Pascal's wager). Ultimately, this is the concept of fighting (imaginary) fire with (imaginary) fire, occasionally shows up in realms like competitive policy debate (where people make absurd arguments about how some random policy may lead to extinction), and is a major reason why I have a probability-trimming heuristic for these kinds of situations/hypotheticals.
Actually, I think it's worth being a bit more careful about treating low-likelihood outcomes as irrelevant simply because you aren't able to attempt to get that outcome more often: your intuition might be right, but you would likely be wrong in then concluding "expected utility/value theory is bunk." Rather than throw out EV, you should figure out whether your intuition is recognizing something that your EV model is ignoring, and if so, figure out what that is. I listed a few example points above, to give another illustration:
Suppose you have a case where ... (read more)