Head of marketing @ 80,000 Hours
1844 karmaJoined Feb 2020Working (0-5 years)Bethnal Green, London, UK


Hello, my name's Bella Forristal. I work at 80,000 Hours, as the head of marketing. 

I'm interested in animal advocacy, moral circle expansion, and normative ethics. 

Previously, I worked in community building with the Global Challenges Project and EA Oxford, and have interned at Charity Entrepreneurship. 

Please feel free to email me to connect at, or leave anonymous feedback at :)


Hey Sam — thanks for this really helpful comment. I think I will do this & do so at any future places I live with wool carpets.

Answer by BellaApr 11, 20242

I hadn't heard of before.

I quickly skimmed three of their highest-scoring egg producers. The main things that worried me:

  • "Spent hens sold live." What does that mean? I worry about transport conditions, and about hens being sold to inexperienced, "backyard", or small-scale operations that won't ensure a quick death or stunning before slaughter.
  • No mention of providing veterinary care, or euthanasia for very sick hens
  • Large flock sizes (hundreds)

[Disclaimer: I'm not an animal welfare or hen care expert!!]

This summary was helpful — I've tried a couple times to engage with the original paper but found it hard, whereas this was very readable & I now think I understand the main points at a basic level :)

(& let's not forget the fetal calves who are still gestating when their mothers go to slaughter. They're killed slowly, if they ever get purposefully slaughtered at all rather than just left to asphyxiate. Obviously, it's unclear whether they're conscious, but I've read accounts of them moving, opening eyes, trying to breathe, etc.).

Just adding: the discussion of dairy cows, here and elsewhere, tends to focus on the experience of the adult cattle & the suffering for them of being milked, deprived of their babies, etc.

But it's not implausible to me that the majority of the disvalue from dairy is in the lives of the calves born to dairy cows. In typical milk-producing operations, adult cows have 1 calf every 18 months or so; 50% of them are male, and so are killed within a few hours to a few months after birth.

(& these lives more likely to be net negative because they have less time to experience positive things to outweigh the terror and pain of death. Undoubtedly, some of their deaths will be quite quick, but others are slow and brutal.)

(Also, veal calves are treated very badly - intense confinement to reduce movement to keep the meat tender, dietary restriction to keep the meat pale, individual confinement in a tiny 'hutch', etc.)

The idea behind why eating babies is more likely to be net negative is that there's a shorter lifespan of positive experiences to balance out the terror and pain of death.

From my experience watching lots of slaughterhouse footage and reading accounts from workers, even the best humane conditions still involve, routinely, a (shorter or longer) period in which the animal goes through the process of dying. This is probably pretty bad. If they only lived for a few weeks before that, it's harder to imagine it's a good deal overall.

all aspects effective autism

Can't tell if joke or typo, but I enjoyed it either way

Answer by BellaApr 04, 20242

(Nitpick: The title should be 'EA 'communities' should be 'professional associations.' Change my mind')

Hey Aidan!

I'm not sure — I didn't do this in this post/didn't have any plans to, mostly because I'm unsure how much our experiences would generalise to different contexts.

Performance of our ads within the same channel can vary by up to a couple orders of magnitude, so I'm just not sure how helpful it'd be for others.

That said, if you're considering a specific project, I'd probably be happy for me or one of my team to chat to you about it based on our experience?

As far as we can tell (e.g. by looking at metrics in the Google ads platform directly) this percentage viewed incorporates all ads served on YouTube (which is most, but not all of them).

Average percentage viewed was indeed a lot worse on other ad platforms :)

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