I didn't mention the environmentalist blocking Borlaug in the 1980s, even though it was clear the Green Revolution led to using less farmland and thus increased biodiversity. It could be another example EA can use about good intentions backfiring (like playpumps and prohibition).
I don’t think GreatNonprofits work for EA, because differences between problems and implementation of solutions greatly dwarf differences between say… overhead or peer review. EA is specifically meant to counter generic feel-good donations.
I am organizing at Texas A&M University, which is just a more conservative and bigger version of Purdue. Things like engineering makeup and such are mostly the same, but there's a lot more emphasis on parochial altruism (helping your neighbor type) and "doing-the-work" culture. For example, Engineers Without Borders has a large chapter at A&M but when I asked about cost-effectiveness they were like "yeah we are spending $30000 to do provide X, (a lot of the costs are due to flights and trips) we care a lot about cutting costs."
At Texas A&M University for this semester, I did more outreach and got fewer fellowship applications this semester than last semester (38 to 41). I don't think this is actually bad, because last semester a lot of outreach attempts ended up failing and we had 7 applicants just two days before the deadline (which we extended twice already). Something like 34 people applied in the last 28 hours because of an engineering mailing list.
I am far more optimistic this semester about attrition than last semester. This is because last semester we accepted everyone to see who will attrition away, and it turns out people who applied last minute are very flaky. Also, it was public knowledge a lot of people show up to the kickoff and then attrition out, so it accelerated more people dropping out. This semester, we only accepted 24/38.
With this semester, we had like 7 show up for first fellowship meetings (compared to 12 last semester), but they seem to be much more engaged with EA. All of them have done the Week 1 readings and they really want to do stuff like evaluating different charities, and they definitely were surprised that they can save hundreds of lives in their careers by just donating money.
Also, what was interesting is that 6/7 fellows who showed up first meeting were girls (gender ratios tend to be opposite in EA groups). But I am going to follow up on everyone who didn't show up. I feel like many times students don't show up because they have exams they gotta study for. There's also an issue of competing with other clubs: I think the key way to fight this is by making the EA group valuable enough for EA-like people.
Some ideas (I am not a parent, but came from a family which had a lot of children. I think my grandmother had 13 kids):
Some people in EA should have kids so it makes EA more friendly to child-bearing parents, especially older professionals who can transition into EA. Look at Julia Wise here and here that one can still be an EA when having kids.
You do have to be careful not letting parenting cost you a lot of impact. For example, if parenting would prevent you from launching new organizations, and launching new orgs would be ridiculously impactful for you, then think twice. However, there are many ways to lower the burden of having kids, such as spending less time micromanaging them. Look at Bryan Caplan's interview with 80k about Selfish Reasons To Have More Kids.
Caplan went over how most of the child's behavior are controlled by genes, not by the parent. This allows parents to do 80/20 and do the most cost-effective parenting behavior, if the parents want to raise a good child.
Also, I won't be surprised if the desire to have kids is controlled by genes. If it is, then some people really want kids and others don't, and that is okay. But in rare cases, it could be impactful due to EA optics and productivity reasons (being more energized).
It’s less that we need more earning-to-give people, but rather many people trying to become EAs can be more effective if they go for earning-to-give than trying to do direct work right away.
To clarify, I am planning to finish my undergrad at A&M and I will use Karnovsky’s aptitude-based approach. So being in an area with EAs is not a big concern right now, but it is a long-term thing.
I also think that staying in Texas can let me network better with groups that EAs have a hard time reaching. Think O&G and conservative leaders. My university also has a killer alumni network, but only in Texas. I don’t think it will help me directly, but it can get me career capital quickly.
I’m going to look at what kind of jobs engineers at A&M in my EA group will like (High Impact Engineering). Earning-to-Give is still an awesome option for most people.
To add on, a lot of engineers we recruited for our EA group just wanted an internship and resume points, and they bounced away. What kind of value could EA provide to those kind of people? Or are EA-adjacent careers just not a good fit to engineers (other than earning-to-give).
What is your general advice for people who are still in college and wanting to work in EA, but are not geographically in any EA heavy-areas?
I am guessing building career capital, but I guess that means accepting I will throw away my impact if AGI comes in the next 10 years. That is okay, I have pretty uncertain AI timelines. I am living in Texas and doing things like moving to DC / silicon valley would mean losing most of my network.
For reference, I just finished freshman year of electrical engineering. I am considering technical sales as an increasingly better way to earn career capital than regular engineering (I think the most impactful roles require social skills more than technical ones), plus many other benefits.
I am also asking this question on behalf of students who might join my university effective altruism group. We are struggling with finding EA aligned people at Texas A&M university, and my hypothesis is that we are attracting the wrong people. We will roll out the next round of recruitment next month, but I wonder what kind of majors are a good fit for EA.
I'll just add a comment that Ord did an 80k podcast on this topic here.
I see. Congrats on founding ALLFED.
I didn't mention the environmentalist blocking Borlaug in the 1980s, even though it was clear the Green Revolution led to using less farmland and thus increased biodiversity. It could be another example EA can use about good intentions backfiring (like playpumps and prohibition).
I really love this read!
I think this would be great for community builders to introduce EA. A shorter version is better (audio is 30 minutes).
Is there any ways I can contribute to this "Want Better Things" project?
I don’t think GreatNonprofits work for EA, because differences between problems and implementation of solutions greatly dwarf differences between say… overhead or peer review. EA is specifically meant to counter generic feel-good donations.
I am organizing at Texas A&M University, which is just a more conservative and bigger version of Purdue. Things like engineering makeup and such are mostly the same, but there's a lot more emphasis on parochial altruism (helping your neighbor type) and "doing-the-work" culture. For example, Engineers Without Borders has a large chapter at A&M but when I asked about cost-effectiveness they were like "yeah we are spending $30000 to do provide X, (a lot of the costs are due to flights and trips) we care a lot about cutting costs."
At Texas A&M University for this semester, I did more outreach and got fewer fellowship applications this semester than last semester (38 to 41). I don't think this is actually bad, because last semester a lot of outreach attempts ended up failing and we had 7 applicants just two days before the deadline (which we extended twice already). Something like 34 people applied in the last 28 hours because of an engineering mailing list.
I am far more optimistic this semester about attrition than last semester. This is because last semester we accepted everyone to see who will attrition away, and it turns out people who applied last minute are very flaky. Also, it was public knowledge a lot of people show up to the kickoff and then attrition out, so it accelerated more people dropping out. This semester, we only accepted 24/38.
With this semester, we had like 7 show up for first fellowship meetings (compared to 12 last semester), but they seem to be much more engaged with EA. All of them have done the Week 1 readings and they really want to do stuff like evaluating different charities, and they definitely were surprised that they can save hundreds of lives in their careers by just donating money.
Also, what was interesting is that 6/7 fellows who showed up first meeting were girls (gender ratios tend to be opposite in EA groups). But I am going to follow up on everyone who didn't show up. I feel like many times students don't show up because they have exams they gotta study for. There's also an issue of competing with other clubs: I think the key way to fight this is by making the EA group valuable enough for EA-like people.
Some ideas (I am not a parent, but came from a family which had a lot of children. I think my grandmother had 13 kids):
Some people in EA should have kids so it makes EA more friendly to child-bearing parents, especially older professionals who can transition into EA. Look at Julia Wise here and here that one can still be an EA when having kids.
You do have to be careful not letting parenting cost you a lot of impact. For example, if parenting would prevent you from launching new organizations, and launching new orgs would be ridiculously impactful for you, then think twice. However, there are many ways to lower the burden of having kids, such as spending less time micromanaging them. Look at Bryan Caplan's interview with 80k about Selfish Reasons To Have More Kids.
Caplan went over how most of the child's behavior are controlled by genes, not by the parent. This allows parents to do 80/20 and do the most cost-effective parenting behavior, if the parents want to raise a good child.
Also, I won't be surprised if the desire to have kids is controlled by genes. If it is, then some people really want kids and others don't, and that is okay. But in rare cases, it could be impactful due to EA optics and productivity reasons (being more energized).
30%➔ 50% agreeThank you Tom.
To clarify, I am planning to finish my undergrad at A&M and I will use Karnovsky’s aptitude-based approach. So being in an area with EAs is not a big concern right now, but it is a long-term thing.
I also think that staying in Texas can let me network better with groups that EAs have a hard time reaching. Think O&G and conservative leaders. My university also has a killer alumni network, but only in Texas. I don’t think it will help me directly, but it can get me career capital quickly.
I’m going to look at what kind of jobs engineers at A&M in my EA group will like (High Impact Engineering). Earning-to-Give is still an awesome option for most people.
To add on, a lot of engineers we recruited for our EA group just wanted an internship and resume points, and they bounced away. What kind of value could EA provide to those kind of people? Or are EA-adjacent careers just not a good fit to engineers (other than earning-to-give).
What is your general advice for people who are still in college and wanting to work in EA, but are not geographically in any EA heavy-areas?
I am guessing building career capital, but I guess that means accepting I will throw away my impact if AGI comes in the next 10 years. That is okay, I have pretty uncertain AI timelines. I am living in Texas and doing things like moving to DC / silicon valley would mean losing most of my network.
For reference, I just finished freshman year of electrical engineering. I am considering technical sales as an increasingly better way to earn career capital than regular engineering (I think the most impactful roles require social skills more than technical ones), plus many other benefits.
I am also asking this question on behalf of students who might join my university effective altruism group. We are struggling with finding EA aligned people at Texas A&M university, and my hypothesis is that we are attracting the wrong people. We will roll out the next round of recruitment next month, but I wonder what kind of majors are a good fit for EA.