One worry, which only applies to certain classes of MCP, is that folks may try to take what they're doing already and reframe it as AIS, without checking whether the ToC makes sense, BC of the increasing status and funding associated with AIS.
They just need to be upskilled on the AI safety component, which I believe could be done to a reasonable degree with maybe a week’s worth of reading and a weekend-long workshop.
I'm pretty skeptical of this. Then again, it depends on the actual role. Maybe for an ops person you just want them to understand the basics and then they can pick up the rest over time.
It’s a bit unreasonable to ask someone established to quit their job, take a massive pay cut, and join a weird three-month thing with no guarantee of a stable job on the other side.
It's not clear to me that this isn't good actually in that it filters for people who really are committed.
Actually, I don't want to go that far because some people have family commitments that would be a blocker regardless of how committed they are, but IMHO commitment selection filters are underrated.
That’s a big ask. Every ounce of friction and doubt you can remove matters.
I don't actually know if we want to remove all of the frictions. See Chesteron's Fence. I would be surprised if you knew who was or wasn't value-aligned or committed before the workshop.
I would be excited to see this too. Though honestly, I would be less excited by the ability to recruit some of the participants (immediate effect) than the potential to perculate these ideas into a particular scene (medium and long-term effect). I am also somewhat wary of recruiting too heavily from the debating scene—there are many brilliant debaters, but are they just going to very persuasively convince us to pursue the wrong strategy?
Cover the field wide, not deep
Agreed. People can only learn so much in a short program. It's best to accept this and to see if you can spark a passion or interest in them, because if you succeed here, they'll learn about the area themselves.
Resist it. A participant who leaves motivated will go learn the camps on their own
I'm more pessimistic than you. I really like the work of Wittgensten, a philosopher of language ("a langauge is a way of life", "if a lion could speak, we couldn't understand him"). People can pick up a shallow version of the other perspectives themselves, but learning how to step into another way of seeing the world is actually something that most people need scaffolding for.
I think that the strongest argument for a lot of your positions is that if you think RSI is imminent we should make a lot of decisions that would be long-term damaging for the community in order to gain short-term value. That could be the right decision, but if we decide to do that, we should pursue that consciously.
People talk about "democratising" AI. I prefer the term "despotising" AI. That is, uploading the weights on the internet so that despots around the world can download AI to use to oppress their people in a permissionless fashion. Even better (for the despots, at least), it doesn't just provide them with the tools to oppress their population, but it also provides them with an credible excuse to do so. After all, with the right AI tools individuals are more than capable of causing significant harm. The despots don't just get to oppress their populations, they also get to present themselves as heroes for doing so.
Just thought I'd share my essay, which won a runner-up prize in the Manifund Essay Competition on Building the EA/AI Safety Scene in San Francisco with you in case it is of any use (I tried to PM you, but I ran into a bug).
Obviously, take it with a massive grain of salt: 1) I don't live in SF 2) you've actually been running things in SF which is much more informative than just theorising about what should be done like I did with my post 3) The best strategy for you to pursue is highly contingent on your own individual skills and fit.
At AI StopWatch, we typically post between two and five times a day, seven days a week. Every evening, we compile the day’s posts — which are low on jargon, high on water cooler discussability (we hope) — into an email-friendly “Daily Digest,” which we also release as a ~10-20 minute audio podcast a few hours later.
I would guess that would be very resource-intensive. How much FTE staff do you have working on this?
Someone really needs to create a course based on Will's EA in the Age of AGI: https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/R8AAG4QBZi5puvogR/effective-altruism-in-the-age-of-agi
Using the term "cult" in in a purported terminology post isn't helpful.
I know it's annoying, but I would have suggested splitting this into two posts, one introducing the terminology in a neutral fashion and another where you use the terminology to make your criticism.
One worry, which only applies to certain classes of MCP, is that folks may try to take what they're doing already and reframe it as AIS, without checking whether the ToC makes sense, BC of the increasing status and funding associated with AIS.
I'm pretty skeptical of this. Then again, it depends on the actual role. Maybe for an ops person you just want them to understand the basics and then they can pick up the rest over time.
It's not clear to me that this isn't good actually in that it filters for people who really are committed.
Actually, I don't want to go that far because some people have family commitments that would be a blocker regardless of how committed they are, but IMHO commitment selection filters are underrated.
I don't actually know if we want to remove all of the frictions. See Chesteron's Fence. I would be surprised if you knew who was or wasn't value-aligned or committed before the workshop.
I would be excited to see this too. Though honestly, I would be less excited by the ability to recruit some of the participants (immediate effect) than the potential to perculate these ideas into a particular scene (medium and long-term effect). I am also somewhat wary of recruiting too heavily from the debating scene—there are many brilliant debaters, but are they just going to very persuasively convince us to pursue the wrong strategy?
Agreed. People can only learn so much in a short program. It's best to accept this and to see if you can spark a passion or interest in them, because if you succeed here, they'll learn about the area themselves.
I'm more pessimistic than you. I really like the work of Wittgensten, a philosopher of language ("a langauge is a way of life", "if a lion could speak, we couldn't understand him"). People can pick up a shallow version of the other perspectives themselves, but learning how to step into another way of seeing the world is actually something that most people need scaffolding for.
I think that the strongest argument for a lot of your positions is that if you think RSI is imminent we should make a lot of decisions that would be long-term damaging for the community in order to gain short-term value. That could be the right decision, but if we decide to do that, we should pursue that consciously.
People talk about "democratising" AI. I prefer the term "despotising" AI. That is, uploading the weights on the internet so that despots around the world can download AI to use to oppress their people in a permissionless fashion. Even better (for the despots, at least), it doesn't just provide them with the tools to oppress their population, but it also provides them with an credible excuse to do so. After all, with the right AI tools individuals are more than capable of causing significant harm. The despots don't just get to oppress their populations, they also get to present themselves as heroes for doing so.
Money can help bootstrap prestige.
Hey Jen,
Just thought I'd share my essay, which won a runner-up prize in the Manifund Essay Competition on Building the EA/AI Safety Scene in San Francisco with you in case it is of any use (I tried to PM you, but I ran into a bug).
Obviously, take it with a massive grain of salt: 1) I don't live in SF 2) you've actually been running things in SF which is much more informative than just theorising about what should be done like I did with my post 3) The best strategy for you to pursue is highly contingent on your own individual skills and fit.
Best,
Chris
I would guess that would be very resource-intensive. How much FTE staff do you have working on this?
Is this US only?
80% chance I can add a few comments if someone produces a draft curriculum. (Alternatively, I might be able to join a call).
Someone really needs to create a course based on Will's EA in the Age of AGI: https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/R8AAG4QBZi5puvogR/effective-altruism-in-the-age-of-agi
Using the term "cult" in in a purported terminology post isn't helpful.
I know it's annoying, but I would have suggested splitting this into two posts, one introducing the terminology in a neutral fashion and another where you use the terminology to make your criticism.