I couldn't get the free Claude to make one that works, and don't really care about this enough to pursue it further, at least for now. Thank you for the suggestion, though! 😁
Has the forum team considered making a settings option to hide vote counts? The option to hide agree/disagree and reaction counts are something I would also appreciate.
I stayed away from this forum for over a year because of it being structured like Reddit, and have also heard concerns about vote counts anywhere influencing bias, as well as issues with like and dislike buttons in general. This post on LessWrong makes a more ambitious case for this, though I'm not campaigning here for any change affecting all users.
I understand the voting system is a necessary evil for maintaining the quality of what's read on the forum, and do think that users here are more responsible about vote count vs. agree count, as well as voicing why one personally disagrees with something, than is commonplace on Reddit. I just think it would be great for us not interested in rating and numbers in discourse to be able to opt out of seeing and indeed being influenced by them.
I do appreciate the removal of the downvote button on the front and user pages as well as the options already here for hiding usernames. Thank you for reading and considering all this! 👍
You are off to a whirlwind start with this blog! You think carefully about problem that evidently has a jackpot of leverage to solve, run a very revealing study from which you extract plenty of great data from 98 days of meals, and make a steel case for why LLM companies should take this whole situation very seriously. The argument that animal-heavy diet recommendations are a misalignment with Claude's constitution ties all the other great arguments together wonderfully and with force, and even if some other company were only interested in preventing gender stereotypes, they have plenty of reason now to put your findings to work, as well. This is a lot of excellent effort gathering evidence and rationale that I imagine can, and hopefully will, make fixing these staggeringly influential models plenty easier. I just very much hope they see your great work and proposition! 🐔️
Like the stuff you write about in general, Kat Woods, this post speaks to me poignantly—worth coming back to after months, no doubt. It feels like some recognition for the number one issue that pulls me back from working with anyone I don't know on anything serious: misanthropy.
In a way, I've quit EA without realizing it, dreading and staying away from it more often than I perhaps have to, because I think of this community as a monolith that I do pretty much dislike. It's like those who've spoken kindly to and encouraged me, not to mention those good-natured people on my podcasts and blogs, aren't even part of that movement they devote their careers to.
Pleasant or otherwise, the only EAs I've ever interacted with are online avatars. I've stayed away from the forum for years because it's structured and sometimes converses like Reddit. It's hard to imagine that there are upvotes hidden in those unjustly negative vote counts, that there are people here who take issue with rudeness, as well, and may well be controlling an avatar here out of compromise, not agreeing with all the wickedness I ascribe to the monolith. Seeing some names here that I'm confident are good people is reason not to let bad apples spoil a bunch.
You put forth a good alternative, that this community is indeed made of individuals; and it's a tough pill to swallow, but possibly one which loads of good impact depends on. Maybe even some of those less likable ones would indeed be likable if I got to know them, I just hope they would be so to those they speak brashly towards. We're all here to achieve a common goal, first and foremost. 🍎
This may be just one of those 10^20 birth stories happening everywhere, every year, but it's no less a tremendously important one. I'm touched by these connections you've made about suffering in all the world from the vivid experience of your own child, with insights to come away with and bring to us as you have.
It gives me a clearer picture of what r-strategist babies are going through all the time, and sparks some interest and perhaps future reading on the science of consciousness—so little do we yet know about this immensely important mystery.
I wish you, your wife, and your rising pride and joy of one year and counting tonight's very best. May they be your muses in freeing so much of the world from agony, and may life go well for you all.
Nice to meet you, too, Oli, welcome back! I love this chill and honest attitude you have going on; you seem like someone great to have around, and certainly more thoughtful and well-read in your fields than I. As I understand, such pleasant character and great thought is where the magic happens, in EA and probably anything. I hope you find everything you want to here and more. Wishing you well from Maryland USA to UK! 👋
The color argument, especially, seems excellent, if only for how much it could benefit flies and humans both, and perhaps is something humans would want. It seems like a victory for both humans and animals far outside most humans' moral circle. I'm not an expert, but I figure this victory would hinge on whether warmly-colored light is healthier for humans, and whether humans prefer warm light over white light.
I can't imagine when our ancestors would've ever encountered white light at times where artificial light is needed, only the warm light of campfires. Aside from that, I prefer to be around warm light over white light always, and have only heard complaints about white light and praise of warm light. I could see opinion research on this being instrumental.
I could see us partnering with public health and other efforts far mightier than EA; even those who care nothing about flies could be doing something great for billions of flies, and we could support the effort. Thank you for proposing this, for both the flies and a more pleasant nighttime for me. 💡🪰🔥
I quite appreciate your compassion for all the morally scrupulous, and this new lens that the money and work I've been able to put in may well amount to something, something more meaningful than I ever care to recognize. It's a bit of a throwback to being called an "essential worker" during COVID, working extra hours and hating it, yet always having such nice things said to me by friends, family, and strangers to keep in mind through it all.
Who would've thought that after discovering how to do way more for good causes than we thought possible, many of us would be more worried about not doing enough? I'm indeed not doing enough, because nobody is. If there was someone doing enough, factory farms wouldn't exist, neither would diseases, nor any other suffering in the world, preventable or otherwise; just one instance of it is plenty horrible on it's own.
The problems are bigger than we can comprehend, but so is the progress just a little care makes on solving them, let alone what sustained charitable action by treating ourselves nicely brings about. 🌠
For any message worthy enough to incorporate into our lives, we should treat it not as law, but as a nudge. An inspiration. A north star.
Thank you for sharing. I love me some survey oppurtunities, a super easy way for a EA noob like me to be useful. This is a very interesting and important-seeming topic, too; any advance in our knowledge and clarity about it is a welcome sight.
Among other things, the natural-atrocity take on zombies is what got me in love with the TV series; depressed by them but interested in this new aesthetic of dangerous nature globally killing human civilization, think overgrown moss on broken subways. I can indeed see things like it motivating EA people to prevent such things, very much involved with visions of such a world. 🪸
I couldn't get the free Claude to make one that works, and don't really care about this enough to pursue it further, at least for now. Thank you for the suggestion, though! 😁
Has the forum team considered making a settings option to hide vote counts? The option to hide agree/disagree and reaction counts are something I would also appreciate.
I stayed away from this forum for over a year because of it being structured like Reddit, and have also heard concerns about vote counts anywhere influencing bias, as well as issues with like and dislike buttons in general. This post on LessWrong makes a more ambitious case for this, though I'm not campaigning here for any change affecting all users.
I understand the voting system is a necessary evil for maintaining the quality of what's read on the forum, and do think that users here are more responsible about vote count vs. agree count, as well as voicing why one personally disagrees with something, than is commonplace on Reddit. I just think it would be great for us not interested in rating and numbers in discourse to be able to opt out of seeing and indeed being influenced by them.
I do appreciate the removal of the downvote button on the front and user pages as well as the options already here for hiding usernames. Thank you for reading and considering all this! 👍
You are off to a whirlwind start with this blog! You think carefully about problem that evidently has a jackpot of leverage to solve, run a very revealing study from which you extract plenty of great data from 98 days of meals, and make a steel case for why LLM companies should take this whole situation very seriously. The argument that animal-heavy diet recommendations are a misalignment with Claude's constitution ties all the other great arguments together wonderfully and with force, and even if some other company were only interested in preventing gender stereotypes, they have plenty of reason now to put your findings to work, as well. This is a lot of excellent effort gathering evidence and rationale that I imagine can, and hopefully will, make fixing these staggeringly influential models plenty easier. I just very much hope they see your great work and proposition! 🐔️
(Also the link just now stopped working, sadly)
Like the stuff you write about in general, Kat Woods, this post speaks to me poignantly—worth coming back to after months, no doubt. It feels like some recognition for the number one issue that pulls me back from working with anyone I don't know on anything serious: misanthropy.
In a way, I've quit EA without realizing it, dreading and staying away from it more often than I perhaps have to, because I think of this community as a monolith that I do pretty much dislike. It's like those who've spoken kindly to and encouraged me, not to mention those good-natured people on my podcasts and blogs, aren't even part of that movement they devote their careers to.
Pleasant or otherwise, the only EAs I've ever interacted with are online avatars. I've stayed away from the forum for years because it's structured and sometimes converses like Reddit. It's hard to imagine that there are upvotes hidden in those unjustly negative vote counts, that there are people here who take issue with rudeness, as well, and may well be controlling an avatar here out of compromise, not agreeing with all the wickedness I ascribe to the monolith. Seeing some names here that I'm confident are good people is reason not to let bad apples spoil a bunch.
You put forth a good alternative, that this community is indeed made of individuals; and it's a tough pill to swallow, but possibly one which loads of good impact depends on. Maybe even some of those less likable ones would indeed be likable if I got to know them, I just hope they would be so to those they speak brashly towards. We're all here to achieve a common goal, first and foremost. 🍎
This may be just one of those 10^20 birth stories happening everywhere, every year, but it's no less a tremendously important one. I'm touched by these connections you've made about suffering in all the world from the vivid experience of your own child, with insights to come away with and bring to us as you have.
It gives me a clearer picture of what r-strategist babies are going through all the time, and sparks some interest and perhaps future reading on the science of consciousness—so little do we yet know about this immensely important mystery.
I wish you, your wife, and your rising pride and joy of one year and counting tonight's very best. May they be your muses in freeing so much of the world from agony, and may life go well for you all.
Nice to meet you, too, Oli, welcome back! I love this chill and honest attitude you have going on; you seem like someone great to have around, and certainly more thoughtful and well-read in your fields than I. As I understand, such pleasant character and great thought is where the magic happens, in EA and probably anything. I hope you find everything you want to here and more. Wishing you well from Maryland USA to UK! 👋
The color argument, especially, seems excellent, if only for how much it could benefit flies and humans both, and perhaps is something humans would want. It seems like a victory for both humans and animals far outside most humans' moral circle. I'm not an expert, but I figure this victory would hinge on whether warmly-colored light is healthier for humans, and whether humans prefer warm light over white light.
I can't imagine when our ancestors would've ever encountered white light at times where artificial light is needed, only the warm light of campfires. Aside from that, I prefer to be around warm light over white light always, and have only heard complaints about white light and praise of warm light. I could see opinion research on this being instrumental.
I could see us partnering with public health and other efforts far mightier than EA; even those who care nothing about flies could be doing something great for billions of flies, and we could support the effort. Thank you for proposing this, for both the flies and a more pleasant nighttime for me. 💡🪰🔥
I quite appreciate your compassion for all the morally scrupulous, and this new lens that the money and work I've been able to put in may well amount to something, something more meaningful than I ever care to recognize. It's a bit of a throwback to being called an "essential worker" during COVID, working extra hours and hating it, yet always having such nice things said to me by friends, family, and strangers to keep in mind through it all.
Who would've thought that after discovering how to do way more for good causes than we thought possible, many of us would be more worried about not doing enough? I'm indeed not doing enough, because nobody is. If there was someone doing enough, factory farms wouldn't exist, neither would diseases, nor any other suffering in the world, preventable or otherwise; just one instance of it is plenty horrible on it's own.
The problems are bigger than we can comprehend, but so is the progress just a little care makes on solving them, let alone what sustained charitable action by treating ourselves nicely brings about. 🌠
Thank you for sharing. I love me some survey oppurtunities, a super easy way for a EA noob like me to be useful. This is a very interesting and important-seeming topic, too; any advance in our knowledge and clarity about it is a welcome sight.
Among other things, the natural-atrocity take on zombies is what got me in love with the TV series; depressed by them but interested in this new aesthetic of dangerous nature globally killing human civilization, think overgrown moss on broken subways. I can indeed see things like it motivating EA people to prevent such things, very much involved with visions of such a world. 🪸