The thing is, we all have opinions, it is great to think. However, when accumulated scientific evidence shows a direction on a certain topic, we are supposed to align our actions probably with the scientific facts.
Now we know quite clearly that economic growth is a major driver of ecological collapse (you can check the works of Parrique, Kallis, Hickel, Meadows, Haberl as a starting point). The rate of economic growth is so fast that our countermeasures (efficiency improvements, carbon capture technologies, etc.) are not sufficient enough to neutralize ecological impact due to the exponential growth of economic activities. In the past decades, Kuznetz claimed that after reaching a certain 'development' level of the economy, the ecological impact would reach a peak point, then start to decline despite the economic growth. Yet this did not happen and there is no supporting evidence that it is likely to happen in short run. Some argues that, for instance Hannah Ritchie from Our World in Data, that absolute decoupling of greenhouse gas emissions and economic growth has been achieved in some developed countries. This is true, yet it does not mean that these developed countries are still crossing planetary boundaries far more than their fair share (check 2023 The Lancet Planetary Health article of Vogel). Their decoupling rate is insufficient and must be at least 16 times faster. And it is only about ghg emissions. A common mistake is to view the world with carbon tunnel vision. Economic activities do not only produce greenhouse gas emissions, and resource and material use have definitely not been decoupled from economic growth.
The main reason for the significant ecological impact of economic growth is that the world economy must continuously grow (otherwise, it collapses). This growth and economic activity is measured in gross domestic product. Any type of production contributes to the growth of gross domestic product (GDP). The production of food, housing, and clothes (basic needs) contributes to it. And also production of weapons, private jets, luxury items, space shuttles, animal products (unnecessary and unrelated to human welfare). I think the former can be classified as good, and the latter group can be classified as bad. We must be aware that the 'bad group of produced goods' contributes a lot to the growth of the world economy. Therefore, your argument that " Generally speaking, I think economic growth and technological progress is good" is refuted.
Lastly, about the book you criticized. I did not read it, but I will definitely read it. You seem to be giving emotional reactions to its critics. Yet the book provides with opportunity for ea people to improve. The following quote for instance:
"Effective Altruists will no doubt continue to see hopeful signs of incremental, quantitative progress in specific areas of policy—e.g., in extreme poverty or malaria reduction—right up to the moment when the entire system collapses, leaving billions to starve to death and all animal life obliterated. (pp. 218-19, emphasis added)"
This quote emphasizes that we are moving toward an ecological and systemic collapse. The probability of it happening is increasing after every COP or climate summit fails to address the root causes of the crisis. Of course, EA people should continue to do their best to help others effectively. However, the inability to see the direction of systemic collapse is widespread among EA people. For instance, the opinion of 80000 on climate change is very much a carbon-tunnel vision and can even be considered climate denialism (they do not even evaluate ecological collapse and 6th mass species extinction from planetary boundaries and ecological tipping points perspective). Soon, there might not be a functioning society EA people would be able to do their philantrophy in.
Hi Richard, thank for sharing your opinions.
The thing is, we all have opinions, it is great to think. However, when accumulated scientific evidence shows a direction on a certain topic, we are supposed to align our actions probably with the scientific facts.
Now we know quite clearly that economic growth is a major driver of ecological collapse (you can check the works of Parrique, Kallis, Hickel, Meadows, Haberl as a starting point). The rate of economic growth is so fast that our countermeasures (efficiency improvements, carbon capture technologies, etc.) are not sufficient enough to neutralize ecological impact due to the exponential growth of economic activities. In the past decades, Kuznetz claimed that after reaching a certain 'development' level of the economy, the ecological impact would reach a peak point, then start to decline despite the economic growth. Yet this did not happen and there is no supporting evidence that it is likely to happen in short run. Some argues that, for instance Hannah Ritchie from Our World in Data, that absolute decoupling of greenhouse gas emissions and economic growth has been achieved in some developed countries. This is true, yet it does not mean that these developed countries are still crossing planetary boundaries far more than their fair share (check 2023 The Lancet Planetary Health article of Vogel). Their decoupling rate is insufficient and must be at least 16 times faster. And it is only about ghg emissions. A common mistake is to view the world with carbon tunnel vision. Economic activities do not only produce greenhouse gas emissions, and resource and material use have definitely not been decoupled from economic growth.
The main reason for the significant ecological impact of economic growth is that the world economy must continuously grow (otherwise, it collapses). This growth and economic activity is measured in gross domestic product. Any type of production contributes to the growth of gross domestic product (GDP). The production of food, housing, and clothes (basic needs) contributes to it. And also production of weapons, private jets, luxury items, space shuttles, animal products (unnecessary and unrelated to human welfare). I think the former can be classified as good, and the latter group can be classified as bad. We must be aware that the 'bad group of produced goods' contributes a lot to the growth of the world economy. Therefore, your argument that " Generally speaking, I think economic growth and technological progress is good" is refuted.
Lastly, about the book you criticized. I did not read it, but I will definitely read it. You seem to be giving emotional reactions to its critics. Yet the book provides with opportunity for ea people to improve. The following quote for instance:
"Effective Altruists will no doubt continue to see hopeful signs of incremental, quantitative progress in specific areas of policy—e.g., in extreme poverty or malaria reduction—right up to the moment when the entire system collapses, leaving billions to starve to death and all animal life obliterated. (pp. 218-19, emphasis added)"
This quote emphasizes that we are moving toward an ecological and systemic collapse. The probability of it happening is increasing after every COP or climate summit fails to address the root causes of the crisis. Of course, EA people should continue to do their best to help others effectively. However, the inability to see the direction of systemic collapse is widespread among EA people. For instance, the opinion of 80000 on climate change is very much a carbon-tunnel vision and can even be considered climate denialism (they do not even evaluate ecological collapse and 6th mass species extinction from planetary boundaries and ecological tipping points perspective). Soon, there might not be a functioning society EA people would be able to do their philantrophy in.