Having thought a bit more about this, maybe "listen. listen. listen". I think I'm often incurious about the feelings of others, perhaps because I don't really expect myself to understand what upset them. Easier for me, sometimes to come up with a hard and fast rule "ask before you touch people" "don't flirt at this event" than to really get it.
I guess I could just pay a lot more attention to why people are upset in the first place. And perhaps sort of give up on really understanding in order to just listen. That's my current approach anyway.
Do you think it's possible that some amount of the behaviour I did would be acceptable in other spaces? eg is there any choice at all in EA norms, or is there sort of a rule of the universe about where community norms should be and my behaviour very likely crosses that line everywhere.
I guess I do think it's more that some behaviour was unacceptable, some was marginal and some was bad for EA but would have been fine in other places. Or at the very least I was (and am) confused that it upset people (and tends to upset EAs much more than other friends).
I've read the responses to this post and while many of them contain criticisms of me and my actions (many of which I agree with and wrote in the original post), few seem to contain substantive disagreements to the post itself.
The post has a lot of downvotes and 12 people have reacted with "disagree".
I don't think it should be enough to dislike my conduct. I often dislike it too. Could someone explain what is wrong with the post?
I still claim that I care about people I have upset and that EA is not a very good fit for me. I think even after being exceedingly careful, people were still upset. This was after having attempted to stop flirting and un-asked touches altogether.
What, actually, are your disagreements with the post?
I asked a couple of questions in reply to your message. I don't think this can really be a dialogue if you respond to your own questions rather than mine.
For what it's worth, I don't think it's AI written. But even if it is, it's fine with me. It makes information dense points, that one might agree or disagree with.
Yes, I agree. And I did this, but I still got several complaints. At this point, I am not sure how I could be more careful than I was at the end. I'm not exaggerating. I wasn't flirting at all or touching people (I asked my friends before I did, and didn't touch anyone else).
"I recognize that creates a burden for you that others do not have to bear. But it does not impair your ability to participate in the core of what EA is. And some differential burden is unavoidable in life. "
Hi, I read the piece a while back. I liked some bits and disliked others. Mainly I wanted to give some context for my piece.
I don't think my piece is deeply engaging with yours, nor is it intending to.
On harms versus intent, I agree harms matter more.
But I disagree on the last point. I think harm probably is sometimes the result of people with different norms/ preferences/ boundaries interacting. And I think EA takes particular sides in these cases.
Having thought a bit more about this, maybe "listen. listen. listen". I think I'm often incurious about the feelings of others, perhaps because I don't really expect myself to understand what upset them. Easier for me, sometimes to come up with a hard and fast rule "ask before you touch people" "don't flirt at this event" than to really get it.
I guess I could just pay a lot more attention to why people are upset in the first place. And perhaps sort of give up on really understanding in order to just listen. That's my current approach anyway.
Do you think it's possible that some amount of the behaviour I did would be acceptable in other spaces? eg is there any choice at all in EA norms, or is there sort of a rule of the universe about where community norms should be and my behaviour very likely crosses that line everywhere.
I guess I do think it's more that some behaviour was unacceptable, some was marginal and some was bad for EA but would have been fine in other places. Or at the very least I was (and am) confused that it upset people (and tends to upset EAs much more than other friends).
@titotal, note that this reply sort of stands in contrast to your original message.
I've read the responses to this post and while many of them contain criticisms of me and my actions (many of which I agree with and wrote in the original post), few seem to contain substantive disagreements to the post itself.
The post has a lot of downvotes and 12 people have reacted with "disagree".
I don't think it should be enough to dislike my conduct. I often dislike it too. Could someone explain what is wrong with the post?
I still claim that I care about people I have upset and that EA is not a very good fit for me. I think even after being exceedingly careful, people were still upset. This was after having attempted to stop flirting and un-asked touches altogether.
What, actually, are your disagreements with the post?
I asked a couple of questions in reply to your message. I don't think this can really be a dialogue if you respond to your own questions rather than mine.
For what it's worth, I don't think it's AI written. But even if it is, it's fine with me. It makes information dense points, that one might agree or disagree with.
I agree it seems to be misunderstanding the post.
I agree, where do you think I say otherwise?
Hi,
This meant a lot to me.
This is how I would like to judge posts I disagree with, so I appreciate you advocating for mine in such terms.
Yes, I agree. And I did this, but I still got several complaints. At this point, I am not sure how I could be more careful than I was at the end. I'm not exaggerating. I wasn't flirting at all or touching people (I asked my friends before I did, and didn't touch anyone else).
"I recognize that creates a burden for you that others do not have to bear. But it does not impair your ability to participate in the core of what EA is. And some differential burden is unavoidable in life. "
Yeah I don't totally disagree here.
Hi, I read the piece a while back. I liked some bits and disliked others. Mainly I wanted to give some context for my piece.
I don't think my piece is deeply engaging with yours, nor is it intending to.
On harms versus intent, I agree harms matter more.
But I disagree on the last point. I think harm probably is sometimes the result of people with different norms/ preferences/ boundaries interacting. And I think EA takes particular sides in these cases.