Longform CPMs for YouTube’s ad platform are roughly $3-10 for every 1,000 views.
I don't really understand the CPM scaling between the length of videos. On my longest video of 40 minutes, I made roughly $7 per 1000 views. On my shortest video of 10 minutes, I made $4 per 1000 views. But that is just because Youtube shows more ads in that time. However, I'm not entirely sure how many ads they display per viewer per minute. I'm pretty sure the longer your content is the less ads they show per minute.
Sponsorships are usually 5-10x the ad CPM. So if you have a video that gets a million views, you could expect to make anywhere between $30-70k (but with wide error bars).
Shortform views are worth roughly 10-100x less on both ads and sponsorships.
It sounds pretty reasonable to me that a sponsorship on a longform video with 1 million views would convert more sales than a sponsorship on a shortform video with 100 million views.
Which is why you typically see almost every shortform creator struggling to break into longform, whereas longform creators can pretty easily make shorts without too much difficulty.
A way you can quantify this is by looking at ad CPMs - how much advertisers are willing to pay for ads on your content.
This is a pretty objective metric for how much "influence" a creator has over their audience.
Podcasters can charge much more per view than longform Youtubers, and longform Youtubers can charge much more than shortform and so on.
This is actually understating it. It's incredibly hard for shortform only creators to make money with ads or sponsors.
There is clearly still diminishing returns per viewer minute, but the curve is not that steep.
Another question is not just what happens when the viewer is watching your content, but what happens after. The important part is not awareness but what people actually do as a result of that awareness.
Top of the funnel content like shortform is still probably useful, but I decided against doing it because short form creators famously have very little ability to influence their audience. They can't really get them to buy products, or join discords, let alone join a protest.
But podcasters and longform Youtubers certainly can, as evidenced by a large chunk of people in AI safety citing Rob Miles as their entry point.
Just wanted to say (without commenting on the points in the dialogue) that I appreciate you and Robert having this discussion, and I think the fact you're having it is an example of good epistemics.
Appreciate you saying this, Michel. As you can imagine, it’s been rough. Perhaps accidentally, this post seems to often lump me in with situations I wasn’t really a part of.
My personal context: I joined Nonlinear full-time in April 2022. We've gone back and forth from being AI safety-focused to more generally x-risk-focused. We removed the fund from our name because we didn't just want to fund projects but also launch relevant ones ourselves, like the Nonlinear Library.
Nonlinear is or used to be a project of Spartz Philanthropies. According to the IRS website, Spartz Philanthropies had its 501(c)(3) status revoked in 2021 since it had not filed the necessary paperwork for three years straight. Now the Nonlinear website no longer mentions Spartz Philanthropies, and I am unsure whether Nonlinear is a tax-exempt nonprofit or what legal status it has.
Nonlinear, Inc is a 501c3. Spartz Philanthropies was an inactive entity that Emerson set up in 2018. We were initially planning on using it as the main entity for Nonlinear. We had filed an extension for the tax returns, but somehow the IRS missed the fact we filed it, which led to tax-exempt status being automatically revoked. Our accountant said you can appeal it and were very likely to win, since it was an error on their part, and we began the appeal, but it can take years. In the meantime, we were fiscally sponsored by Rethink Charity. The IRS was taking too long to respond to the appeal, so I set up a new entity.
Back in 2021, Nonlinear launched its AI safety fund with an announcement post which got some pushback/skepticism in the comments section. Does anyone know whether this fund has made any grants or seeded any new organisations? I have not managed to find any information about the Fund on the Nonlinear website.
I’ve actually been working on a more complete list of all the projects we’ve funded and incubated! But have been very unproductive the last two months due to a combination of an extremely painful RSI and chronic nausea/gut issues. We changed our name from the Nonlinear Fund to Nonlinear. Kat made a basic list here: https://www.nonlinear.org/
Nonlinear funded it through a bounty, but I'm unaware of any future plans. If anyone has any ideas for improvement or expansion, feel free to reach out.
Longform CPMs for YouTube’s ad platform are roughly $3-10 for every 1,000 views.
I don't really understand the CPM scaling between the length of videos. On my longest video of 40 minutes, I made roughly $7 per 1000 views. On my shortest video of 10 minutes, I made $4 per 1000 views. But that is just because Youtube shows more ads in that time. However, I'm not entirely sure how many ads they display per viewer per minute. I'm pretty sure the longer your content is the less ads they show per minute.
Sponsorships are usually 5-10x the ad CPM. So if you have a video that gets a million views, you could expect to make anywhere between $30-70k (but with wide error bars).
Shortform views are worth roughly 10-100x less on both ads and sponsorships.
It sounds pretty reasonable to me that a sponsorship on a longform video with 1 million views would convert more sales than a sponsorship on a shortform video with 100 million views.
Which is why you typically see almost every shortform creator struggling to break into longform, whereas longform creators can pretty easily make shorts without too much difficulty.
A way you can quantify this is by looking at ad CPMs - how much advertisers are willing to pay for ads on your content.
This is a pretty objective metric for how much "influence" a creator has over their audience.
Podcasters can charge much more per view than longform Youtubers, and longform Youtubers can charge much more than shortform and so on.
This is actually understating it. It's incredibly hard for shortform only creators to make money with ads or sponsors.
There is clearly still diminishing returns per viewer minute, but the curve is not that steep.
Another question is not just what happens when the viewer is watching your content, but what happens after. The important part is not awareness but what people actually do as a result of that awareness.
Top of the funnel content like shortform is still probably useful, but I decided against doing it because short form creators famously have very little ability to influence their audience. They can't really get them to buy products, or join discords, let alone join a protest.
But podcasters and longform Youtubers certainly can, as evidenced by a large chunk of people in AI safety citing Rob Miles as their entry point.
Just wanted to say (without commenting on the points in the dialogue) that I appreciate you and Robert having this discussion, and I think the fact you're having it is an example of good epistemics.
Appreciate you saying this, Michel. As you can imagine, it’s been rough. Perhaps accidentally, this post seems to often lump me in with situations I wasn’t really a part of.
Appreciate the comments!
My personal context: I joined Nonlinear full-time in April 2022. We've gone back and forth from being AI safety-focused to more generally x-risk-focused. We removed the fund from our name because we didn't just want to fund projects but also launch relevant ones ourselves, like the Nonlinear Library.
Happy to provide more context here.
Nonlinear, Inc is a 501c3. Spartz Philanthropies was an inactive entity that Emerson set up in 2018. We were initially planning on using it as the main entity for Nonlinear. We had filed an extension for the tax returns, but somehow the IRS missed the fact we filed it, which led to tax-exempt status being automatically revoked. Our accountant said you can appeal it and were very likely to win, since it was an error on their part, and we began the appeal, but it can take years. In the meantime, we were fiscally sponsored by Rethink Charity. The IRS was taking too long to respond to the appeal, so I set up a new entity.
I’ve actually been working on a more complete list of all the projects we’ve funded and incubated! But have been very unproductive the last two months due to a combination of an extremely painful RSI and chronic nausea/gut issues. We changed our name from the Nonlinear Fund to Nonlinear. Kat made a basic list here: https://www.nonlinear.org/
We aim to send it out to funders within the next 48 hours.
Nonlinear funded it through a bounty, but I'm unaware of any future plans. If anyone has any ideas for improvement or expansion, feel free to reach out.
Just read it and liked it a lot! Added to the recruiting/hiring category.
I haven't! Do you recommend it?